Scale Up Strategies: The Business Podcast for Coaches, Consultants, and Speakers

Crafting Compelling B2B Content with Instagram Expert Jennifer Herman

Laura Bashore and Mary Fain Brandt Season 2 Episode 3

Tired of hearing Instagram is a business must, but not seeing the ROI for your B2B needs?

Us too, and that's why we've brought in Jenn Herman.

Get ready to transform the way you create content with Jennifer's expert tips. We explore the art of crafting educational and visually appealing posts that captivate audiences and effectively communicate your message. 

From practical advice on batching content and leveraging B-roll footage to making the most of scheduling tools like GoraPulse, you'll walk away with a toolkit designed to optimize your Instagram presence. Discover how to strike the perfect balance in your posting strategy for maximum impact and engagement.

The conversation emphasizes optimizing profiles, effective content strategies, and the importance of engagement to maximize social media impact.

• Importance of optimizing Instagram profiles 
• Crafting a compelling bio and highlights for first-time visitors 
• Types of content: Carousels, Reels, and educational posts 
• Strategies for batching content efficiently 
• Utilizing Instagram Stories for business engagement 
• Balancing personal sharing with brand integrity 
• Understanding audience preferences for tailored content 

In our conversation, we also tap into the world of personal branding, discussing how sharing your story can foster genuine connections. 

Whether you prefer an open-book strategy or a more reserved approach, Jennifer helps navigate the delicate balance between authenticity and privacy. 

If you enjoyed the podcast, show us some love. Please rate, review and subscribe to our podcast, and if you have any feedback, go ahead and share that with us too, because we want to hear from you. Until then, stay focused, stay motivated and stay caffeinated.

Connect with Jenn Herman
https://jennstrends.com/

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Laura Bashore:

Hey guys. So, as you know, Mary and I are big proponents of LinkedIn, but that's definitely not the only platform out there, and to show you that we are open to learning new things and reaching out to experts who can help us do it in the right way, we have a great guest on today. Her name is Jennifer Herman and she is known as one of the number one experts for Instagram. She's going to share so many great insights with us today. Can't wait for you to learn, and I will also be taking notes too. So let's get this started, Mary.

Mary Fain Brandt:

You're listening to Scale Up Strategies, the business growth podcast for coaches, consultants and speakers. We're your hosts and business coach experts Mary Fain Bandt and Laura Bas hore.

Laura Bashore:

We're sharing all our insider tips from 20 plus years in business, including how we successfully scaled our businesses without losing our minds or our husbands.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Sure, you can piece it together and try to DIY your way to success. Or you can listen to us every week and learn the shortcuts, because we promise they're really awesome, so grab your favorite cup of coffee, tune in and let's start the show.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Let's get this started. Well, jen, thank you so much for coming on with us, because you know we both know how busy you are. You are one of the number one Instagram stories and I just want to give you a shout out for being a awesome mom, because Jen and I are actually friends. We met at social media marketing world probably six years ago it's. It's been a while. You've been on all of my shows.

Jenn Herman:

I have a new show.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I'm like Jen Instagram because, like Laura said, every time I have a new show. I'm like Jen Instagram Because, like Laura said, I like Instagram, but I use it personally to look at cat videos, recipes. This is how I use it personally. I have an Instagram page for my business. I don't use it as much for that, and neither does Laura. We're really the LinkedIn experts, but Instagram is a great platform for that, and neither does Laura. We're really the LinkedIn experts, but, you know, instagram is a great platform for businesses and we thought we should have you come on to really tell or share with our audience how to get the most out of Instagram. But before we get started, you know what? Let's get official. Let me read your bio.

Mary Fain Brandt:

There's a real quick little snap it here. So you guys, jen Herman, besides being awesome and my friend, she is a social media consultant, speaker and a globally recognized Instagram expert. That's a big title, a big crown to wear.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I know, she's the author of Instagram for Dummies, instagram for Business for Dummies and the ultimate Guide to Social Media Marketing. Her expertise has been featured in top tier outlets like Incorporated Fox News, entrepreneur, huffington Post, and making her the go-to resource for Instagram strategies that work Two key words. And so we wanted to bring you on today to really find out what's working. And, laura, I was sharing with Jen before we went live, ironically, moments before I just got her email. Yes, I'm on her email list and I don't go on email lists unless I really like you and the content and her email. I have it open over here. Where did it go? It's no more following Instagram hashtags and 12 other IG updates. So lots of things going on in Instagram.

Jenn Herman:

Yes, yeah, we average 10 to 12 updates a month on Instagram. It is one of the busiest platforms for updates, so it's a lot to keep up with.

Laura Bashore:

Yeah, I was just going to ask how do you keep up with that? Because Mary mentioned you're a mom too. So as a fellow mom, I know like we have a lot of plates going on.

Jenn Herman:

Yeah, I mean this is my thing, right, like. If someone asked me about LinkedIn, I'd be like go talk to these people. You know it's like, because this is what I do. You know, I live, eat, sleep, breathe Instagram for the most part. So when these updates come out, I'm usually, you know, I've got email lists and notifications that trigger it, but I've also got people around the world who will get access to things and they will reach out to me via DM or email and be like Jen. We just saw this Like. Have you seen this? Is this new? Should we try this? And so I've been lucky to build a network and my audience around the world that people know. You know, hey, if there's something new, let's share it with Jen. So I sometimes get early access to things, even before it's hit the news cycle, because of these amazing people around the world who share and give me screenshots and things before it necessarily gets out there.

Mary Fain Brandt:

And just because you know you are that credible Instagram expert right yes.

Jenn Herman:

Yes, and technically. I mean, if you ask Chad GPT, who the best Instagram expert is to learn from, it's your girl here. So I'm just saying, oh, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that. I know I'm like every now and then I keep like checking. I'm just saying, oh, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that. I'm like every now and then I keep like checking. I'm like have I been dethroned?

Laura Bashore:

Oh, my God.

Mary Fain Brandt:

That's good and that speaks to that. You have a lot of content out then.

Jenn Herman:

Yes, and it is like I'm always putting stuff on Instagram tips, tutorials. I share them to you know a lot of things I'll share to Facebook and LinkedIn as well. I have my newsletter every month with all of the updates from the month prior, so it's like I am putting a lot out there. But, yes, it is. You know, for me it's exciting, like I love when they test a new feature or when they roll out an update and I can sit there and be like, oh, like, let's play with this, what is this going to do? Like it's. For me, it's exciting, I enjoy it.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I love that. I love that, laura. Do you want to? She's probably over there Googling your name.

Laura Bashore:

I am. I'm just literally chat GPT right now. I am, I did it's. Jen Yay, whoa still on the road You're there we love you guys.

Mary Fain Brandt:

This is how the podcast rolls. We have a lot of fun.

Laura Bashore:

No, I love it, I love it. And then you're up there with, like, neil Patel and like, yes, very nice man. Okay, well, now I'm more excited to listen Not like I wasn't before, but I love what you were saying right there where you know the way that you work. It is that you're going to have your main platform and then you use your other platforms to kind of put retarget back to where you're going to share your bulk of your information. So let's start from the beginning of this, which is, what are the key elements of just setting up your profile, because, as you said, things change constantly. What are those key things we need to have that are going to grab an audience attention and credibility right when they look at that?

Jenn Herman:

Yeah, so when it comes to your profile on Instagram, it is relatively limited compared to other platforms. Right, like LinkedIn, you have a whole about section. You can have, you know links, you can, you know, you have your little, you know headline and you've got all these different things. And then you get into like here's your, you know your work history and here's your posts. Like, you get a lot when you go to someone's LinkedIn profile. Same with Facebook right, you can go and you can see all the about section and all the different posts. On Instagram it's like here's this little tiny box at the top and then a bunch of pictures. So it's a totally different environment. You do have to keep that in mind. So when you're formulating your strategy for your profile, you have to remember that most people will only look at and read your profile the first time they find you. Once they're following you, they're never going to read that top section again. If they come to your profile, it's go to your LinkedIn bio, it's to go find a piece of content, but they're never reading that top section. Once they follow you, once they know who you are, that becomes irrelevant. So that is your 30 second elevator pitch. It's your first time visitor hook right, like you want to formulate this for somebody who just found you on Instagram Whether they were, you know, sent you in. Sorry, I think I may have froze a little bit there, but when you you know somebody who's coming to your profile whether they found you in search, they found, you know, like a photo or a reel or something was shared with them and they come to your profile we want to make sure that that is optimized for that first time visitor.

Jenn Herman:

So the key is to have your name, so you have your username. Your username is instagramcom, forward slash, whatever it is, and that's your handle. In my case it's Jen's underscore trends J-E-N-N-S underscore trends. But the name field should not be the same thing, it should be different and it should be like in my case my brand name is the username, my name is the name, but I've also added Instagram expert to the name field.

Jenn Herman:

So we want to put like a keyword or something that describes your industry, your niche, your expertise, your product, like something that kind of like can be a single one, two words, but something in there that gives a little more depth to who you are and what you do. And then the bio is 150 characters, so it's not a lot of space, and we want to show who you are, what you do and what's in it for them. Why should they care? Why should they follow you? What are they going to get out of this? Is there a call to action to you know, 30 percent off? Here, you know, and you point to your link in bio? Or is it sharing weekly tips, sharing, you know, monthly motivation? Whatever it is like? You want to have things in there that tell them why they should care. And, for the love of all things, instagram, don't make it corporate Like nobody goes to Instagram to read the corporate lingo.

Jenn Herman:

We are a brand focused on your health and wellness. No like, add personality, add the emoji, set it up so that the people who come in and find you feel like they want to be a part of that, and if you can get that going, everything else falls into place.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I love that. I'm looking at mine right now going, oh well, I need to change that, I need to. It's all good. No, but you know it's not my, it's not the platform that I teach and train on. So it's always good, but I feel like we should have a profile over on Instagram. I have a quick question, probably going out of turn here. So you know, you got to set up your profile, you've got to do the basics, you got to have that link in bio, because links don't work in content, like big mistake that I used to make and probably still once in a while, make that mistake. Oopsie, but does LinkedIn, because it's such a visual platform, right? So I think products right. So I've got this question like who is the platform for, jen? Is it for products, services, corporations? Can you maybe go a little bit about that?

Jenn Herman:

It's honestly for anybody and I get this question all the time, too right. Everyone's like well, I don't have a widget, I don't have a product I don't have, I'm not doing beauty, I'm not pretty, I'm not doing these things, I can't use beauty, I'm not pretty, like, I'm not doing these things, I can't use Instagram and I'm like literally anybody. There's 2 billion monthly active users on the platform. Your audience is on Instagram. It is one of the largest platforms in the world. So, whatever that your target audience is, they're there. We just have to make sure we're crafting the content to reach them, and so I mean, I'm probably one of the leading, if not only high level expert that actually teaches Instagram for B2B, because most people don't think of Instagram for service-based businesses, right?

Jenn Herman:

We think of it for products and pretty things. But there's so many ways that you can actually use the platform in B2B for education, coaching, you know service based businesses, and a lot of it does come down to what you would do elsewhere Education, tips, resources, tutorials, expertise, industry news all of these things still work. You're just going to have to formulate it different. So carousels are great.

Jenn Herman:

I use all my educational content not all, but most of it comes in a carousel. Carousel is when you can swipe through multiple slides so you can go up to 20 on Instagram now. So you do a good cover one and it's like the title right? So I'll be like you know three tips for using hashtags on Instagram, and that's the cover slide. Then you go to the next one and you say you know, if you've struggled with using hashtags on Instagram, here's three tips to get you started. And then, on the third one, I will literally say tip one and I go into it tip two, tip three, and so people are swiping through and getting all that information. Those parasails don't do well on LinkedIn or Facebook because it's too many images, right, like you wouldn't put all that in sequential images on those platforms, but on Instagram, super high, performing.

Jenn Herman:

Likewise, you could have a great reel, which is a vertical video or even a singular photo, and put a ton of information in your caption so you could say you know, here's how to write your Instagram bio, okay. And I could write a really long caption with a B me with like a little bit of text saying Instagram bio tips. It may be a graphic or those sorts of things. The key is that the visuals have to have minimal text at first. Right, so that cover slide, like we're not taking the PDF and condensing it into a JPEG and throwing that up and being like, look, I gave you education. And condensing it into a JPEG and throwing that and being like, look, I gave you education Like that doesn't work right.

Jenn Herman:

We have to make it big font, not a lot of words, and condense it, in which case then we could say you know for more on this. Go to my link in bio to get you know more details, or you know to read the fine print, or you know, whatever it is, but there's so much value in giving educational content across the board, in whatever industry you're in, that you know.

Jenn Herman:

Just because you're on Instagram doesn't mean you don't want to learn. We still need, you know, those resources and that's shareable content and Instagram is big on shareable content. So the education, the resources, the tips you know we're going into holiday season. You know, going into the new year, all the tips and tutorials related to end of year, new year, you know, setting yourself up for success in your industry those are the things that people are like share. They're sharing with their colleagues, their friends, their family, whatever it is, and then that all helps. You know your overall strategy, but, yeah, it's just knowing what your audience wants and giving them that education and resource.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I'm totally going to go back and listen to this and take notes, because I'm so focused right now. I was like, oh, carousels, oh, that first slide should just have minimal text. I'm like, so I can take some of what I've done for LinkedIn and just tweak it to make it fit the platform. And that's probably the biggest mistake all of us have made at one part or the other is putting the same content on all the platforms when they all have different audience. Yeah, and even to this day, like oops, that just got scheduled to everything, and I probably, you know, I'm going to go back and look at my carousel and be like, oh, okay, I'm going to tell my VA on Instagram this is what we're going to do now.

Laura Bashore:

Yes, yeah, that's such a good way of looking at it too, because a lot of times, when we're not as familiar with Instagram, we're just like oh, it's all pictures, and so if my service doesn't fit into a picture format, I don't know how I could utilize it. But what you're seeing right there is think about it like a like almost like an old school billboard, right when it's like here's this big picture and then here's this minimal text that is meant to get you to do something. Like you're trying to move that action Instead of like, if you're posting long form content, you want them to stay. You know, you're not really trying to move them, okay. Okay, you're doing a really great job of explaining this, not that I need to tell you that, but I'm really understanding what you're saying and I will point out too, like when it, because a lot of people do like again my business.

Jenn Herman:

Unless I'm traveling and speaking at a conference, my job is very boring. Visually I got nothing right. I sit at a computer like the rest of us and I answer emails and I make content. Like it's not pretty content, but I always tell people if you need to do something A schedule, a photo shoot and get brand photos of yourself, because we need as many brand photos as possible at any given time. But also have your spouse, your kid, your colleague, your friend, have them following you around for an hour as if you're on a reality TV show.

Jenn Herman:

So reality TV isn't real, right, but it's reality TV. So think of it like that. We're like have some nice photos of you sitting at your desk and people shooting a couple photos over your shoulder. Your clean desk not like it normally looks, you know, but like doing some things around your office or your home space that show you in work mode. You're on your laptop, you're on the phone, you're you know you're out walking, you know the dog. You're in the garage setting up packages. The garage setting up packages. Whatever it is in your business that you're doing have someone follow you around in the reality camera mode as if they're showcasing what you do, and then do that a couple times throughout a year. You've got a ton of great B-roll type footage whether photos or videos that you can use to support your own business and your brand and it showcases you, but it doesn't have to be you posing like you're in the product. Here's me finding it something. You know what I mean Like you can get some of that kind of more B-roll footage, but do it intentionally.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I'm going to tell my husband that you said he has to do this for me. He'll be thrilled. He's gotten really good at doing short videos so I can make deals. Yeah, he's fully trained. He knows to angle up high. You know the different angles, yeah, so, uh, he's going to have fun, cause I'm like, oh, that is such a great idea, like when I'm sitting here like trying to record like short videos for LinkedIn, cause we have vertical video feed on LinkedIn.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Sorry, I just have to shout that I love it. So I had him taking me some pictures, but I didn't think like have him do that for even a half an hour for me and I'll have tons of content, and do it on a day when you know your camera ready.

Jenn Herman:

Right, we've got our hair done, we've got makeup on, we're wearing appropriate clothing and just have him stand on the other side of your desk or shoot a couple photos and videos of you working, like I said. It could be you opening a package, like whatever these things are, we want them to be work related, but all day you're working, you're doing things all day in your business that are visual If you can set them up for the right photography and videography.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I love that. Oh, we're going to have fun over Christmas.

Laura Bashore:

I can only imagine the many different hats we will find you in. Oh yes, I have all my.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Christmas hats too, Christmas cards to my clients. You know things like that. There you go. Oh yeah, my head's spinning. Thank you, Jen.

Laura Bashore:

Okay, so we're talking about this and this kind of goes into one of the questions we have and maybe you'll just elaborate a little bit on how you do this for yourself which is, you know, a lot of times we like to batch our content. How can we do this? So, beyond just the video, what are some other things that would work well that we could batch, that would create a space where people want to begin to engage with us?

Jenn Herman:

Yeah, so again you can schedule on Instagram. I don't rely on it because Meta's platforms tend to be a little clunky when it comes to internal scheduling and you know I had a reel all done, ready to go, saved his draft, published it didn't publish, lost the reel, so awesome.

Mary Fain Brandt:

So you're, you're, are you talking about scheduling natively, yeah?

Jenn Herman:

If you schedule natively, it's clunky. If you schedule with a third party tool, it makes your life a million times easier. So invest in a third party tool, get something, whether it's a relatively low priced solution upwards of a higher price solution. I'm a brand ambassador for GoraPulse. I've used them for years. It's the tool that keeps me sane, kind of thing, because I can batch right.

Jenn Herman:

I can sit here on a Thursday and I can be like here's all my content for the next three weeks and I can schedule it all out across all my platforms, including Instagram. So you want to think about, you know your content schedule right. We want to make sure we have some educational content in there. We want behind the scenes, personal type things. We want, you know, value add type things. And then we want the sales posts right. We want something that's out there saying value add type things. And then we want the sales posts right. We want something that's out there saying, hey, you can work with me, you know. So we want to be able to plan that and schedule that and have that ready to go.

Jenn Herman:

Again, having a brand photo shoot is going to be incredibly helpful. I can batch all my content because I've done dozens. At this point it feels like brand photo shoots, and so I've got a ton of content where I can have me in different stages, different images, different, you know, facial expressions, whatever it is for videos. On a day like today, where I look like this, I'm gonna stand right here beside my pink wall, I'm gonna take a bunch of photos of selfies, because I use those regularly and I'm going to film a bunch of short videos, kind of like Mary was just talking about, and I'm going to do some in this room, some of my living room, some of my bedroom, when I change my shirt and I'm just gonna be like okay, just really short videos of one where maybe I'm asking a question, short videos of where I'm like yes, yes, good news, you know like. And so these little short videos that I can then use two weeks from now, three weeks from now, and I can literally just throw up some text, check the box. I've got a reel but I'm not having to worry about. Well, you know, now I've got to, you know, queue up this and I've got to work on this and I've got to. I can do all these videos in segments and just have them ready to go. So, as I'm mapping out my content, I pick whichever little segment I want to make my real. I've got my photos to create those visuals. I'm in Canva with all my templates for my carousels, so I can go in there, just change the fonts are in there, the colors are in there, I just change the text. Download, boom, upload. So right now it's holidays.

Jenn Herman:

My content schedule is not so good, like there's nothing scheduled past today. But I can sit down and queue up all my content for easily three to four weeks on Instagram. But I always leave pockets and you all know this. But on any platform we leave pockets because all of a sudden, instagram will release an update that I have to talk about or something happens in the industry that I'm like, oh, we got to move some content around so I can flesh these things out. But it is important that you have those visuals ready to go.

Jenn Herman:

One of my tips I tell people all the time is get used to something we're not most people are not used to Hold this in your hand all the time. So whenever you are out and you've got your phone with you and you're like, oh, that's a pretty flower, take a photo. When you're out walking by a beautiful building, take a photo. You may never use these things, but the more you have these photos readily available, the more you have content to come back to at some point. And you know like I'll say like, if it's raining, take photos of the raindrops on your car windshield, take photos of the rain on your, you know, living room window Rainbows.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I took pictures of rainbows. I took pictures in the car wash. One time I was like this is such an old school. Like does anybody wash their car? By hand anymore, you know Right. So I'm with you on that. Everything is content. You just have to, and that's the thing.

Jenn Herman:

Eat it. Yeah, when you need that content, like today, it's sunny and gorgeous. But if I wanted to schedule a content talking about rainy day, I'm like I can't get a photo of the rain, but if I had done it a month ago, when it rained, I'd have that photo handy. So it's creating these little buckets and resources of visuals that you have so that, whenever you need them, you're ready to start bulk content scheduling.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Awesome. There's so many new features on Instagram, so we know like set up your profile and even if you have one, I'm telling you go back and look at it. Listen to Jen's notes. Everything is content. Batch, create, take a bunch of pictures. I like your idea of these little mini videos where you're not really saying anything, it's just action. So I'm totally going to do that. Thank you for that reminder, but, um, there's so many different ways, right? You have stories, reels, posts, carousels, so how does a business owner decide where they should focus for maximum impact? Like stories they're only there for, is it 24 hours?

Mary Fain Brandt:

24 hours yeah, so if your business owner doesn't make sense to put a story that's going to disappear, because then a potential client you know 48 hours later might not see that. So what is your strategy on using different features on Instagram?

Jenn Herman:

So what I typically tell people and this works for almost all brands who want to recalibrate or figure out what to do. Ideally, you should not be posting every single day on Instagram. In the field, Definitely not. If you're posting every single day, it's too much.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Most people probably aren't. I thought Instagram was the platform where they say post multiple times.

Jenn Herman:

That's what other people have told me, I know, but guess what? It makes your content compete with itself and it just hurts you in the long run. So don't do it, Okay. Most brands don't have enough high quality content to post every single day. So if you're posting three to four times a week, that's usually the good sweet spot for most brands. Three to four times a week in the feed, that's your feed. Carousels and reels, Stories we'll talk about in just a minute. So in the feed, three to four times a week, your happy space, If you're. If you only do once or twice a week, I'm good with that, as long as you are consistent. Don't do five times this week, two times next week. Take three weeks off, come back and do three times the following week. Do one to two every week, I'm good with that. Like, the consistency is more important than the frequency. But if you want to recalibrate, if you need to know because again all the experts are like well, you have to do reels, reels, reels, reels.

Jenn Herman:

And then it was like well, carousels, which I've been preaching carousels for like five years. But hey that's okay.

Jenn Herman:

Now everyone wants to do carousels, but here's the thing we all have different audiences. What works for my audience is not what's going to work for your audience or your audience or your audience. So my best tip is to recalibrate for six to eight weeks and to do this every week for six to eight weeks, because it takes about two months for the algorithm to readjust and for your audience to readjust to your content strategy. So, six to eight weeks for any test one reel, one single photo and one carousel every week for six to eight weeks. So and it's not going to be like every monday is the reel, every wednesday is a carousel we're going to mix it up a little bit. Doesn't have to be super consistent, but every week, one reel, one single photo and one carousel. After six to eight weeks, you're going to know what works for your audience. You're going to be able to look at that and be like my reels get twice the views.

Jenn Herman:

So I'm going to do more reels and less photos and carousels, not going to give up on photos and carousels, because they still account for 50% of all activity on Instagram. It's a 50-50, 50% of time on reels, 50% time on feed and carousel. So if you're only doing reels you're alienating the other audience. But you may go to two reels a week and a photo. Then the next week two reels and a carousel, right, so you may shift your focus. You may find that photos dominate for you, in which case two photos and a reel photo carousel. You may increase the photo load. So that's the best way to recalibrate and figure out what works for you. For stories totally different Stories we want to post at least one every single day, if you can, because, like you said, they expire every 24 hours.

Jenn Herman:

So if I post on Monday and you log in on Wednesday, you're not seeing my stories. But here's what matters and this is why I'm the exception to every rule. But for every brand out there the vast majority of brands stories are your highest converting content. Stories drive more conversions than anything else on the platform for most brands. Because you can put link stickers in stories, you can send people to any destination you want.

Jenn Herman:

Unlike feed posts, stories because they're short-lived are where we tend to metaphorically let our hair down. We tend to show up with less makeup, we don't care about the lighting, we don't care if it's a blotchy video, whatever it's gone in 24 hours. We're filming videos in the carpool lane, at pickup we're, you know, at the grocery store, you know in the backyard, we don't care. But that's the real us and that's what people actually connect with. It's through stories that we tend to build the best relationships and drive the most conversions. So we want to make sure that we're showing up in stories for that audience, and that doesn't mean it has to be fresh content every single day.

Jenn Herman:

If you posted a post on Monday on your stories, you can repost it on Thursday, because what are the chances that somebody who saw it on Monday is going to see it on Thursday? Not super high and they're not mad if they saw it again. Like they're not gonna be like. Mary only posted that story on Monday. How dare she do it again. No one's going to care. So we can recycle our story content while keeping it fresh and adding new components to it. Don't be afraid to put that extra effort into the stories and see if that drives those conversions for you.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Okay, I'm thinking more about stories.

Jenn Herman:

I can't do every day.

Laura Bashore:

That's a lot for me, but you'll be then saving your story, Like. So you'll like, if you created a video and then you're going to upload that as your story, right? So then you're saving that video and you're like okay, I'll do this again in a couple of days, Especially for sales related things Right, especially the business side.

Jenn Herman:

Like, if it's like here I am having an ice cream going on a Saturday with my kid, I'm not going to repost that on Monday, like that's, that's casual content. But if I'm like promoting, if I'm in campaign mode and I'm promoting my you know, my membership and profit, your profile, and I'm like here, you know, sign up, like here's everything you get out of it. Yeah, I'm going to recycle that content throughout the week because I've got it formatted, I've got the text, you know, I've got it ready to go. I'm just going to repurpose that two or three times throughout the week so that people A I'm in campaign mode, I want to be extra heavy on the sales content during that week or two week campaign.

Jenn Herman:

But, also I know that somebody on Wednesday probably didn't see it on Monday, so I'm going to repurpose it multiple times, especially from the sales and product and service based side of the content, more so than the personal. The know those types of things. And and if you posted on your Instagram feed, if you have your carousel with your tutorial, share it to your stories there. You shared a story, but then do it again Three days later, go back and be like hey, I shared this carousel, super helpful tips. Boom, shared a story. You've got it again. So you can kind of keep repurposing and bringing con, bringing eyeballs back to your feed content, so much valuable information, so many great tips.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I want to go dive into Instagram right now.

Laura Bashore:

Don't do it yet Don't let that kick in. You know, Mary sees some sparkly she's like, here we go.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Don't do it, I do Laura knows me well Like what was that over there? Oh cool, yeah, five projects at once.

Jenn Herman:

But Laura, do you have?

Mary Fain Brandt:

another question for Jen when are we at? What do we got?

Laura Bashore:

I mean, so I think it's the other thing that can overwhelm people, especially those who are not as open, socially right, like depending on how you do your business behaviors, and or I'm just going to say age right, like the amount of privacy that you're willing to share with people. How, then, do you drive engagement? Does that happen directly on the platform? And then what does that look like?

Jenn Herman:

Yeah. So I always tell people you get to be as open as you want to be. You know, I have a realtor that I work with. She's also in the speaker circuit stuff and she is like uber open. Like she's got her kids up there, she got her vacation posts, like whatever she's doing that with, like it's all over Instagram, like she's gonna share it with the whole wide world she doesn't care if you see it or not. Like she's so open.

Jenn Herman:

And then I have other clients and people that I work with who are like oh no, no, no, I don't want people to know what shoes I wore today. Like they're going to stalk me because they're going to see my shoes at the mall. Like you know what I mean. Like there's there's so many levels of what is okay for you and I'm not here to tell you you need to do more or less. Whatever your comfort zone is is your comfort zone. But, yes, like any social media platform, people want to connect with you.

Jenn Herman:

Whether you're the face of the company, whether you are the company, whether you're an employee at a company, people connect with people behind the brand and there has to be some level of openness and that may be that, as a brand, you talk about your missions and your values and your charitable work in the community and what your holiday traditions or summer vacation breaks, without telling people what you're doing, embracing some of the reality behind the brand. You are not just a product, you are not just a service. Excuse you, sorry, my cat decided she wants to come in and make a whole bunch of noise and she's like there's like a little strip of sunshine. She's like, ooh, this is mine, but so it's, it's fine, that's the personal side, right, here's, here's what happens.

Jenn Herman:

But it's finding those little nuances of brand personality that allow you to start to get more comfortable opening the door if you're not super comfortable. On the other side, people want to know you, right, they want to know what you look like, not fully makeup, not on stage, not at the front of the shop, not on camera, whatever that looks like. And so showcasing the shop not, you know, on camera, whatever that looks like and so showcasing a little bit about it can even be after like I will a lot of times do a carousel when I get home from a trip, right? So whether it's a speaking event or a personal trip, I do a recap carousel with four or five photos from that trip. So I'm already home.

Laura Bashore:

Nobody can stalk me and show up wherever I am around the world.

Jenn Herman:

But I can showcase and be like I went to. I went to Arizona, I was in Italy. I flew to New York, I flew to you know, idaho, whatever it is, and I can showcase a little bit about that and people get to see me doing something other than sitting in this chair in front of a pink wall doing the same thing I do every day. But if you've got kids and you don't want to share their face, that's okay. You don't have to say their name, you don't have to show their face. You can have photos of you at the theme park or a photo of the sky with palm trees and be like we went to the beach today, but without giving away personal insights.

Jenn Herman:

It doesn't have to be this massive swath of privacy invasion. You get comfortable with it and you also have to like. This is something I know Mary's gotten a little more used to this and you know I'm more used to this. We put ourselves out there publicly and people will come up to us Like we were talking in the green room and Mary's like I follow all your stuff. I know you were here for Thanksgiving. I know what's going on with your boyfriend.

Jenn Herman:

I know what's going on with your kid. That is my choice to be that open.

Jenn Herman:

But you also have to get used to the fact that then people know that you're doing these things and that can be a little unnerving and you get used to it over time when people who you don't know know a lot about you. But that's part of their loyalty to your brand, to your product, your service is because they're following these other things that make them say I'm going to purchase from her, I'm going to refer him, I'm going to work with this company, because they see that personal side of you.

Laura Bashore:

Yeah, I think that's a really great way to describe it for anybody who's kind of on the fence and figuring out what to do. I know it was a little jarring for me once I started being more open with that and people just come up to me but on the flip side, them feeling like they know who you are it really makes just an easy conversation for you to start with people. It's kind of it's quite enjoyable honestly, you know, for the most part because people are like smiling when they're talking to you.

Jenn Herman:

They're not nervous, they're excited, they're like oh, I'm so glad, the great thing is like, if you're kind of introverted, like I'm an extroverted introvert, right, like you put me on a stage and I'm like you put me in a room with a hundred I don't know and I'm hiding in the corner, like I'm like, right, but because I'm so public, people come up to me. I don't have to approach them, right, they come to me because now they feel they know me and they have an opening to talk to me. Be like, oh, I just saw that photo of your daughter. Now I can flip the conversation. Be like, oh, thank you, do you have kids? And I can now put it back on them and let them talk about themselves. Right, it allows this dialogue of conversation where you can turn back and say, well, I know nothing about this person, and it gives you prompts of questions to ask them because they came to you first, right, so it creates a really easy conversation when you meet new people. If they know these little things about you, I love it.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Yeah, so much work to do on my Instagram account now.

Laura Bashore:

So much opportunity, mary, it's opportunity.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm actually taking notes. Like, oh, don't forget, Mary, to put links in your stories. Carousels are doing good. I spoke at the Marriott. You know their annual conference. Duh Like, let's make that into a carousel. I'm going to put that on Instagram in a story and say now, booking quarter one for 2025. There you go, yeah, Ding, ding, ding. Yeah. So Laura's going to have to say stop Mary. You yeah, so Laura's going to have to say stop Mary, you have to finish these projects first yeah, Do all at once.

Laura Bashore:

Well, you know, don't don't be offended by it, but I've been taking short videos and photos of us while we're doing this.

Jenn Herman:

Oh, my God, I love it.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Oh, is that what you're?

Laura Bashore:

doing.

Jenn Herman:

Yeah, when you see me look down all weird I'm trying to be, you know, incognito.

Laura Bashore:

Back to the Clark Kent references.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Right, I just need to take a photo of us with our glasses. I'm going to say because Clark Kent, I was like. You're right, he's still the same person, he looks like the same person.

Laura Bashore:

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Mary Fain Brandt:

I love it. Well, this has been so helpful, I know, for us, but for our audience. You know, we have quite a few people that are on Instagram our clients and our colleagues and our following so I think this is really going to be helpful to them and we will make sure that in the show notes that we put links to your books, to your Instagram. You guys, if you want to know about Instagram, this is the woman to follow. Get on her newsletter. I don't sign up for a lot of newsletters, but I get hers and it's easy to read and it's full of, like you say, education and tips.

Jenn Herman:

So I love that and it's only once a month because I don't have time to create a newsletter every week.

Laura Bashore:

So I'm like you look at my, like my I use MailChimp and you go in there.

Jenn Herman:

You look at my, like my. I use MailChimp and you go in there and it's like monthly newsletter, like three times a year I may send one additional email but.

Jenn Herman:

I really it is. It's once a month that recaps all the previous month's Instagram updates. So you know today's went out for the previous month, all those updates. But I also bring up all the other big social media news, not in nearly as much detail but like really quick highlights of all the big social media news with hyperlinks to all those resources I've got again like things you miss, tips and things to keep in mind, fun facts and resources. It's a very big email because it's only once a month but, yes, it is loaded with a ton of resources so that anybody in social media can find you know some helpful things every month.

Mary Fain Brandt:

You do a great job Well we're going to wrap this up, but before we say goodbye, we ask all of our guests for questions. Yeah, yeah, and you're not prepped for it, but they're pretty easy. I think that you'll be able to answer these without too much. So I'm going to ask the first two. Laura is going to take the next two. So are you ready? I'm ready. Okay, what was the last risk you took as a business owner?

Jenn Herman:

Oh gosh, Um, I got rid of some software. Um, honestly, I I was trying to lean up, Like I'm I'm pretty lean with the resources I use. Um, and I was like I, I think I can get rid of these things. And it was scary because we get reliant on certain things, Right, and we're like, well, if I can get rid of this, but honestly, it's, it's worked out great. Um, I've been able to find other resources to to use and I've streamlined and I've a VA and other things like that. Um, so I, it wasn't a big risk, but it was definitely one of those like uncomfortable, like Ooh, am I going to pull?

Mary Fain Brandt:

the plug again. Yep, I'm going through my tool list right now. Laura, you'll be proud of me. I did not buy something today. I sent it to a friend on Facebook and said what do you think of this? Because it was AI. You know I'm inundated with the AI stuff, so I have to ask someone. But I have a policy. Laura's part of that policy I have to ask before I buy a tool. Nice.

Laura Bashore:

Yes, Recently we talked about Grammarly right and I was like just free option is going to be. Just fine girl, You're, you're good, I have a few people that I can reach out to like.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Should I buy this?

Jenn Herman:

Okay.

Mary Fain Brandt:

Question number two what is a quote that you live by in your business or your life Like?

Jenn Herman:

do you have a quote or a mantra it is if you were the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room, yep, and I live and die by that. I love being surrounded by people who are, who make me feel like I'm not successful.

Jenn Herman:

And I know I am right, Like I know like, in the grand scheme, I am successful, I'm good at what I do and I'm the best at what I do. But to be in a room where I'm like, whoa, those are some smart people are successful or you know they they're in a different industry or whatever and to learn from those people how they got there, what they're doing, what their focus is, what matters to them it's, it's so eyeopening so I definitely live by that.

Laura Bashore:

I love that. Yeah, it's inspiring, right Like you just want. You know you want to continue to be inspired, Otherwise you just stop doing things. So I love that. All right, so I already know the answer to this but I'm still going to ask it, which is what is the number one social platform that you use?

Jenn Herman:

Instagram. So, but honestly, facebook Instagram from a business perspective a hundred percent is is where I live and do everything. But personally, I live on Facebook. That's where I get my news, it's where I get my friends updates, it's where I know what's, you know, happening in people's lives and everything. I'm on Facebook like literally all day, every day.

Mary Fain Brandt:

All right.

Jenn Herman:

Does your?

Mary Fain Brandt:

boss know that, just kidding.

Jenn Herman:

It's for work, Mary Uh-huh.

Laura Bashore:

Keeping it in the metasphere Research. It's all in one, okay. And then our final question for you, jen, is what is the key to your success? Oh, gosh?

Jenn Herman:

Probably two things. One is always having an opinion, which I think as women, we are often told not to have opinions. My success is that I have opinions and I'm not afraid. Like when Adam Mazzeri, the head of Instagram, says you should do this, I go no, you should not. And here's data why you should not. I am never afraid to come out with an opinion, usually back with data, but to stand out from the noise, to really let myself get in front of what everybody else is just regurgitating. And I don't do it to be combative. I'm not like Gary Vee over here yelling and screaming about like this is what you got to do.

Jenn Herman:

But having an opinion and standing that apart from what necessarily everybody else is doing. The second thing I will attribute in my business, my success is longstanding. I have always I use an inappropriate term I say I'm a podcast whore, in the sense that if you ask me to go on your show and it's remotely related, I will say yes, and it's the best way to get in front of new audiences, to reach new people, to master speaking right, To learn what the industry needs. Like every time I go on a podcast and they ask me questions, I'm like I have to ask that question one more time. But if everybody's asking it, that's what matters, Right, so it's.

Jenn Herman:

It's great market research for me and it's that is my cat knocking over everything in my daughter's room, Literally just like the whole. I just heard the whole wall just crash, Like all of her toys, everything just like falling off the wall. Oh well, but yes, being able to show up in front of new audiences regularly and get my voice, my expertise, my knowledge and my presence out there in front of as many people as possible. I credit all of that to podcasting and being a guest.

Jenn Herman:

I don't run my own, but being a guest on podcasts.

Mary Fain Brandt:

You're an excellent guest, thank you.

Laura Bashore:

Yes, absolutely. Well, I think you know there's so many great takeaways that you shared with us today, so much that we need to go implement and that our audiences will love to implement. And honestly, jen, I like that what you shared was a different perspective. It was not the same way of approaching Instagram that I hear all the time and it didn't sound overwhelming. It sounded like things that I was like okay, I can get on board with this, so I'm sure that that's resonating with our audience too. So a couple of things we just want to recap are all right, highlighting the importance of optimizing your profile, but doing it smartly. So it needs to have a purpose. Don't forget the what's in it for your audience. That's the main part.

Laura Bashore:

And written for first time visitors and for first time visitors don't expect that that's where people are going to continue to go every time they get onto your profile or into your feed and then creating engaging content. Who knew that it could be more than just look at this pretty picture?

Jenn Herman:

And.

Laura Bashore:

I really enjoyed finding out, like the why, because you always hear people say, don't put too much text on there, but having a little bit more of the why on there was good for us to understand. And then leveraging the different Instagram features. Finally, a strategy for how you're supposed to utilize this. And you know, because we do always just hear posts every day, but when you say, well, with a story and then a reason why, like oh, that makes sense, that doesn't seem overwhelming. And then just making sure that you're constantly looking to build relationships through the engagement that you're trying to get with your audience. So, thank you again. We are going to have all of Jen's information in our notes, so please go on and take advantage of that, besides her books, her newsletter, all these great things that are going to help you just really excel on the platform and in social media. And that's what I have for us. Mary, why don't you lead us out and let's get on with the day?

Mary Fain Brandt:

Sure. Just want to say thank you again, Jen. I'll see you next year in San Diego. You too, Laura. Until next time, you guys. Here's to good coffee, great conversations and even greater success Cheers. If you enjoyed the podcast, show us some love. Please rate, review and subscribe to our podcast, and if you have any feedback, go ahead and share that with us too, because we want to hear from you. Until then, stay focused, stay motivated and stay caffeinated.

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